Curse

holden · Oct 23, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

What the heck is Spell Breaker there for? So what, you're trying to tell me that Spell Breaker doesn't serve as a cover enchant then? Besides, other enchants are far more susceptible to removal than Spell Breaker.

a lot you said was pretty dumb but this enchantment blast really takes the cake.

you should quit while you're ahead. or wait a few weeks/months and come back and re-read this entire post.

spellbreaker is a shitty skill for a monk to use as an elite. it costs 15 energy, has a 16 second duration and a 45 second recharge. it's a bad skill anyway. being an elite makes it terrible.

SAPhoenix · Oct 24, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Use a valid argument and prove me wrong. Don't ride on the coattails of someone else that counter-posted and think you're all that. It doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look like a moron with nothing to back up what he said.

Tell me what was pretty dumb. Go ahead, it's not like I mind. Just don't say something is dumb and have nothing to back up your claims. That makes you look dumb.

Spura · Oct 24, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

True. That little fact can really count in the sin's favour. If he isn't public enemy no.1, it makes him that much more deadly.

Again, if they aren't casting spells on the sin, it's an advantage, not a disadvantage. The minute the focus shifts from the sin to someone else, the sin can take advantage of it.

Well if they're blowing their energy on my team members after having blown it on me, they're setting themselves up for a fall. And again, we aren't talking about one monk supporting an entire team on his own. For every member of my team that is targetted, that is one less threat to me. Which gives me more of an opportunity to strike while they're focused on someone else.

Usually their offense will just focus on your defensive characters. You seriously overrate making attacks unopposed. Unopposed attacks happen all the time with all builds and most of the time they don't result in a kill, because monk heals the target.

If they used energy to hex you and after you are protected hexed other team members, they are hardly setting up for a fail, most hex teams are intended to hex all targets on enemy team, so inability to give hexes to 1 enemy for a period of time is hardly a problem for hex teams, they will just spend that energy applying more hexes to other member.
1 player protected from spells is also non-issue for spike teams and pressure teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Which can be countered. And they are far more susceptible to conditions/hexes.

No they aren't. The Shove hammer QQ used in playoffs did just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

And get it stripped before they even land a single hit.

I doubt that. 0.25 cast and off you go with a chain. Disenchanters rarely target warriors to catch that. Also there usually isn't enough enchantment removal to hit every enchantment that goes around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Yep, then those stance users can capitalize on it when they're no longer under pressure.

You overrate this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

You seem to be contradicting yourself there. First you say Spell Breaker is a no no except on ghostly, now you say they "might as well" use it on whoever they want if it isn't being used on ghosty. Well heck, then they might as well use it as I suggested!

I am not contradicting. I said if you bring it for ghostly then you can use it on other players when he is not capping.

This means that you'd never bring it just to use it on assassin.
How many bring Spell Breaker to protect attackers on their team in GvG? None. It shows that it is not worth bringing for the assassin. If you bring it anyway because of ghostly then sure, use it.

Your team is weaker defensively(weaker monk, and you don't bring anything defensively) but not that much stronger offensively. Heck for a lot of teams the only spell based attacker shutdown is Blinding Flash.

I would much rather use Fox's Promise with Sight Beyond Sight to spike and put BL on monk to remove hexes and conditions.

SAPhoenix · Oct 24, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Also there usually isn't enough enchantment removal to hit every enchantment that goes around.

Taking into account what you just mentioned there, we shouldn't even be having this argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Your team is weaker defensively(weaker monk, and you don't bring anything defensively) but not that much stronger offensively. Heck for a lot of teams the only spell based attacker shutdown is Blinding Flash.

I see you chose to ignore my reference to the "Flourish" sin with a smite monk and Strength of Honor for powerful spikes. And the fact that it was used with great success against high-ranked teams (in HA, of all places) running 2 "default" monks. Was the "Flourish" team any weaker because they had a smite monk on their team? I think not.

holden · Oct 24, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Use a valid argument and prove me wrong. Don't ride on the coattails of someone else that counter-posted and think you're all that. It doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look like a moron with nothing to back up what he said.

Tell me what was pretty dumb. Go ahead, it's not like I mind. Just don't say something is dumb and have nothing to back up your claims. That makes you look dumb.

you eluded to using the high priced, low duration, long cooldown Spellbreaker as a cover enchantment. dumb, imo.

and at the risk of being a brownnoser, you dont know half of what spura does about this game. not even close.

asskisser or not, spellbreaker sucks.

SAPhoenix · Oct 25, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

What does Spura's knowledge of GW have to do with your argument?

So you are riding on his coattails then. At least have the decency to argue a point yourself instead of simply adding to what was already posted.

Also, basing your empty claims on an assumption is pretty moronic. Who's to say I don't know as much about the game as Spura does? And WTH does that have to do with anything anyway? We weren't arguing about who's knowledge is greater. We were arguing as to whether it was plausible to use Spell Breaker as suggested. He gave his opinion, I gave mine. If you don't like it, fine. Just don't make stupid assumptions and expect me to take you seriously when you obviously can't muster an opinion unless it's based on what someone else has already said.

Karmaniac · Oct 25, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Fox's Promise

Now even less likely you will ever invest points in deadly arts.

Nevertheless I find it kinda amusing that arguably the best and most usable skills will be introduced in expansion which is in no way associated with Factions.
Seriously Anet was it really too hard to come up with decent skills in Factions?

SAPhoenix · Oct 25, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Two words: Marketing strategy.

However, Deadly Arts has some nice new additions, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, the sin has plenty of decent, usable and effective skills available to it currently. If that wasn't the case, no one would bother with it.

Hellcaller · Oct 25, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I am very happy with the new skills that the assassin got with Nightfall, and i finally have some good reasons to actually use deadly arts now, since the new skills also show to be very practical. And with the addition of Black Spider Strike, it will be easy to make some good 'deadly' assassin builds, which i found a bit hard using Black Lotus Strike as it has 20 secs recharge, and its tied to Critical Strikes, which will be on the lower side when i use Deadly Arts.

Personally, i cant wait to try out the powerful Deadly Paradox, and of course Mark of Insecurity(which i will choose instead of Foxs Promise). MoI shows to be very 'deadly' and versatile as well, as it can be used vs rangers, warriors who choose to stance, and its also very useful against enchanters, especially dervish and some builds like the IW mesmer and its new upcoming Me/A variation(which will probably use Deadly Paradox in addition with Feigned Neutralilty?) And of course, it only costs 5 energy, cast 1 sec, and recharges in 10 secs while it lasts for 21 secs on DA 12. For example, it will be funny to see that Shadows Refuge of the assassin your sparring with will only last 2 secs. Or his Feigned Neutralitiy for 6 secs. Or a whirling defense of 9 secs. Or Distortion for 3 secs. Or........never mind, i think you get the point now.

Signet of Toxic Shock will also prove to be very good, and an excellent follow up for Black Spider Strike(maybe with Iron Palm for knockdown?). Also, Disrupting dagger will probably be in many builds as well, since it can be very useful even with no points in deadly arts. And last but not least, Shadow Prison. I think ill have a lot of fun with that one(maybe with Deaths Retreat?). Anyway, i cant wait to try out the Nightfall assassin. And i think ill find it hard to exclude Deadly arts from my assassin now.(And lets not forget the good old Impale and Siphon Speed!) Now, i only have to think about my attribute points -.-

Anyway, GOODLUCK TO EVERYONE, and HAVE FUN with Nightfall and Halloween(both irl and gw) Enjoy all!

holden · Oct 25, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

What does Spura's knowledge of GW have to do with your argument?

i just wanted to make it clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

So you are riding on his coattails then. At least have the decency to argue a point yourself instead of simply adding to what was already posted.

agreeing with someone that has a thorough knowledge of the game does not equate to 'riding on the coattails of someone else'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Also, basing your empty claims on an assumption is pretty moronic. Who's to say I don't know as much about the game as Spura does?

your posts proved it over and over. you brought up using Spellbreaker as a cover enchantment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

And WTH does that have to do with anything anyway? We weren't arguing about who's knowledge is greater. We were arguing as to whether it was plausible to use Spell Breaker as suggested. He gave his opinion, I gave mine. If you don't like it, fine. Just don't make stupid assumptions and expect me to take you seriously when you obviously can't muster an opinion unless it's based on what someone else has already said.

.......

vergerefosh · Oct 25, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

New ones don't sound that good to me

Temple Strike FTW all the way

SAPhoenix · Oct 26, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

i just wanted to make it clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

And you can't even make a valid argument on your own. You're basically just repeating what he said. Which kinda makes your post pointless. Don't expect me to be phased by what you said. By the way, was that comment supposed to have a particular effect? Guess you failed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

agreeing with someone that has a thorough knowledge of the game does not equate to 'riding on the coattails of someone else'.

Go back to your master then, Igor. And stop wasting my time. You weren't merely agreeing with him. You were trying to formulate your own argument, at which you abysmally failed. That gives me the impression that your own knowledge of the game is limited, so you have to piggyback on other ppls' posts to come across as though you know something. Kudos to you.

A thorough knowledge of the game cannot be construed as knowing everything. We're all human here, not robots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

your posts proved it over and over. you brought up using Spellbreaker as a cover enchantment.

Oh so it isn't an enchantment... I see. And it thusly cannot be used as a cover enchantment. Ah ok. Thanks for the useless information.

SAPhoenix · Oct 26, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by vergerefosh

New ones don't sound that good to me

Temple Strike FTW all the way

Practical application is usually better than theory

Wait until Nightfall is out, try out a few of these new elites, and chances are your opinion of them will change.

holden · Oct 26, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Oh so it isn't an enchantment... I see. And it thusly cannot be used as a cover enchantment. Ah ok. Thanks for the useless information.

l o l

Gosu · Oct 27, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Ok Saphoenix, I have read through this entire thread.

Now Sap I think maybe your little concept has potential, but unfortunately there are big holes in your strategy. A few people namely Spura has tried to put you straight on these things, but for whatever reason, maybe due to how Spura approached the thread you have responded aggressively.

The thing is Sap the build you are proposing is not stable; your build is based around keeping your Assassin hassle free as possible. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but unfortunately you are doing that at the expense of a core team player (Monk).

You said yourself that you would willingly sacrifice energy management for this form of attack. This is unwise to say the least, energy management is integral for a monk and the fact that you are sacrificing it for a very poor Elite (Spell breaker) is terrible.

Before you bring up the ole Mo/A look at the build most of the skills are 5 energy the cheapest amount of energy you can spend on a skill with the exception being the signet of devotion, which costs nothing. With the most expensive skill being 10 energy, which is Protective Spirit/ Blessed light or Spirit Bond/Blessed light. The skills are cheap,cost effective and fast recharging. Which makes running no e-management on the Mo/A possible.

The way you have described the usage of Spell breaker in your build seems a little naive. I will explain, you are brining Spell breaker for the sole reason to "just" help the Assassin and nothing else from what it seems to me.

You are sacrificing Blessed light, Energy drain and Mantra of recall all of these skills can benefit not just "ONE" person but also a host of teammates. Blessed light can help remove conditions as well as hexes; Mantra and Energy drain provide energy for the monk to keep helping the team more consistently and effectively.

Instead you are bringing Spell Breaker to aid one player to spike effectively, the fact that you feel your sin has to be dependant on another player to perform effectively speaks volumes.

Bringing SpellBreaker to help the Ghostly is the only real scenario where an elite has to be used on a specific individual player.That scenario of protecting the ghostly is usually forced on the team and can't really be avoided, otherwise as Spura said Spellbreaker would rarely be used.

Your situation differs, as this can be more than avoided. I am not trying to say don't create the build you are making, just put a little more time into it and make the build solid but more than anything stable.

Then you will be onto a winner.

Babysitting the Ghostly Hero in this way is quite important, he should be of vital importance to most Ha teams, as the hero provides a morale boost in HA if he happens to kick the bucket. Doing this for another player in this manner especially when you don't need to seems unwise. I am assuming you are considering this build for GvG also, if you are then i feel it needs to be reworked for some of the reasons above.

I would advise think more about your team, rather than the survival of one individual player if it can be helped.

Yanman.be · Oct 27, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

New things I like:

Wrastel's Collapse

Shadow Prison

Shattering Assault

Assault Enchantments

Fox's Promise

Way of the Assassin.

Arathas the great · Oct 30, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

hey guys, just found the boss that you can cap way of the assassin from. if anyone needs help finding it Pm me in game

IGN: arathas the great

oljomo · Oct 30, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Black Spider Strike is the skill my assassin is eagerly awaiting. Finally, a hexed target offhand that has a decent recharge time. Best of all, it doesn't consume the elite slot.

Hi

the best part is, they reduced the recharge of black lotus as well ^_^

black lotus + black spider IMO beats GPS falling

oljomo

Yanman.be · Oct 30, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

It does.

Son of Urza · Oct 31, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Yeah. Shadow Prison-BLS-Horns-Falling-Twisting. There's your combo. Doesn't even need any points in deadly arts- BLS will be used immediately after Shadow Prison, well within the 4 second duration. Costs 17 net energy, a rather nice improvement over AoD-GPS-Horns-Falling-Twisting's 40 energy.

Also note that Black Spider Strike and Black Lotus Strike don't really go all that well together, as they are both "on hex" lead attack-free offhand attacks, with exactly the same recharge.